Interviewer: Joe .. you have said that the Pacific air war was .. very personal.

Joe Foss: I always carried a handgun with me. I carried two handguns. I had a .22 handgun, loaded with hollow point bullets, and I had a couple of clips for it, and that under my shoulder .. where it didn't show. And I had a .45 on my hip.

I always figured, if I bailed out and landed where they could get at me .. I could 'play dead' till they got right up around me, and then kill as many of them as I could before they killed me.

Interviewer: Pappy Boyington got beat up .. severely .. a whole bunch of times when he was taken prisoner. But he, amazingly, he came full circle and forgave them.

Joe Foss: Yeah, he was just a tough guy.

Interviewer: We talked about Lieutenant Colonel Bauer who was lost in the war. It seems like everyone revered him. I just wanted to get your take. Why was he such a great leader, and how did he inspire you?

Joe Foss: Well, he just was a very positive man. And he'd shown what he could do .. he'd knocked down about a dozen airplanes .. he wasn't just blowing smoke .. he'd done it.

He knew the tactics, and he was right in the thick of the fight. This one day he says to me, "Joe, I want to go up with you and just fly wing on you," and I said, "No sir. I'll fly wing on you, sir. "So he says, "All right."

This is when we were going on up to attack the enemy fleet that was coming down the 'slot', while escorting six cargo ships. And so we coordinated the deal with a Navy carrier. And the planes off the island were to intercept this outfit.

Everybody fired up [their airplanes]. But, on the Grumman Wildcat, .. to start it .. you use a shotgun shell. If you didn't get it started on the first time .. then you had to manually 'pull the propeller through' to remove the excess fuel.

Joe Bauer didn't get his airplane started. So then I signaled the rest of our pilots to go on.

Then .. we waited .. and waited. Finally got his plane started and he took off. Boot and I joined up on him. Several minutes late [way behind the others] we were approaching the enemy fleet in the distance. You could see columns of black smoke rising up .. so we knew they did their work well.

I recall, there were about six ships smoking, and I could see our planes returning. [And the carrier's] dive bombers were screaming down .. and away.

And we were about 20,000 feet. And I thought Colonel Bauer would turn around and we'd go back because it was too late. We were out of the deal .. the attack was over. But .. he just came on .. so we floated along toward the fleet and all the smoke.

When we get up over the fleet, he gave the signal to dive. We peeled off and down we go .. right down to the water.

So, we're flying low .. strafing these ships, see? And I thought .. Oh boy! Any minute now the ZEROS are going to be coming. There's got to be some Zeros around here. And we're horsing around .. zigging and zagging .. and tearing around right in the middle of the fleet.

And just like that .. it started 'snowing' .. those Zero 'sons of a gun' were behind us [firing].

The first guy made a run on me .. went by .. and I 'popped' him. An easy shot. He over ran me .. which is a dumb deal to do. He should have just hit me and broken away. And so I got on the tail of another one, but almost ran into a ship .. concentrating on that airplane.

Interviewer: So you're literally 20-30 feet above the water?

Joe Foss: No. Lower. Five to ten feet off the water. We were down there. See, when you're so low, in the middle of the enemy fleet, they can't shoot .. or they will shoot each other. It was an interesting place to be .. we were hitting the life boats and everything else.

Interviewer: But at the same you're so close to the water that you can't break hard left or right? You can only go up .. or straight?

Joe Foss: We raised up just enough to make [steep] turns. [ Anyway] what happened is, that just off to my right, Joe Bauer just put his plane right on [a Zero's] tail .. and it blew. He nailed that baby.

And the guy that I was chasing was smoking real good. Then .. I almost hit a ship. But he never went anyplace .. he probably crashed a little; I didn't see him go down.

Then, I figured, we better get out of here.

And so I make a turn toward where Joe was and saw no sign of him. Boot was over there blasting away, so I call, "Let's go!" But my radio was dead. I'd gotten hit a couple of times and they'd hit my radio.

And so I swung back to go on back the other way and .. I saw this oil slick. I figured that had to be Joe Bauer. So, I gave the 'doop-de-doop' signal for Boot that we were going home.

As we went by oil slick, I saw this guy in the middle of it. He just waved to us like .. "Go home. Get out of here."If we circled .. they'd know he was out there. So, I pulled the lever to drop the rubber boat I had .. it didn't come down. So, Joe was in the water with no boat .. nothing. Just a life jacket.

Boot and I just headed for home, right on the deck. When we got there, I just said, "Colonel Bauer was down. I saw him in the water there." Joe Renner says, "Come on, we'll get in the 'duck' .. and go after him."

So I got in the [amphibious] 'duck' through the hatch .. flipped the thing over and screwed it down. You land with that sucker open; you're in trouble.

What happened next was, Joe taxies out and 'slotted down' the throttles for takeoff. [Second later] a B-25 taxied in from a side [taxiway]. Joe had enough speed to [temporarily] get that ' duck' airborne. We went over the top of the B-25 .. and hit the runway on the other side [to continue the take-off ].

Now, that was a case of the Lord .. just picking our airplane up .. and set it down. I wasn't buckled in. I was trying to crawl up to the top. I hadn't even seen the B-25.

So we headed up there. We could see all of the smoke from the distance. It kept getting darker and darker. By the time we got to where the enemy fleet was .. it was pitch dark. Absolutely black.

And what does Joe Renner do? .. he goes straight into the middle of that deal .. We're flying around and almost hit a ship. So, I'm pleading, "We can't see the Colonel here in the dark. We couldn't pick out an elephant." He was flying right on the water, and we almost hit another ship and a lifeboat .. we were right there, see.

So he finally listened and climbed up. So I said, "What I'll do is, I'll be here in the morning with my flight. You fly this thing, and we'll all be here before daylight .. so we can see and pick up the Colonel."

So the next morning we were there before daylight, circling around in the dark. Then when it got light enough to see .. there were no ships, there was just garbage all over the sea. Some were bodies, some were just boxes and trash. When a ship sinks, it's amazing how much garbage comes to the top.

Then we lined up .. and we're flying back and forth. And here comes the Zeros. There were six Zeros, and eight of us. So two guys got left out.

We just turned .. got into it .. and we had six more airplanes to our credit. We got rid of them all there in short order, and two of the boys didn't get any.

So then we line up again and go at it. Back and forth, flying line abreast, and we went the other way and we combed that entire sea. And we stayed until we were low on gas. So, we turned around and went home and that was the end of Joe Bauer.

Interviewer: Could you describe him?

Joe Foss: He was a tall, high cheek-boned part, Indian, a 24-karat man. But it was a sorry day. Everybody loved Joe Bauer.

Evidently, either a shark got him .. or the [Japanese] found him, and they were so mad because of what we'd done, that only Lord knows what happened.

Interviewer: I wanted to ask you about the other fighter aces. Do you sense a commonality between all of them? What about the flight leaders?

Joe Foss: You have to be an aggressive character. Some were more or less quiet. But, you cannot be a leader and say, "I think we're going to really have to fight today .. this is going to be really tough .. they've got us outnumbered."

If you don't say, "Okay men. Let's take this baby .. we aren't worrying about them. What we're going to do is what we think is best for us .. we're going to put out .. and be alert .. 100% of the time". If you [had the
wrong point of view] somebody would sneak up on [ worried ] you .. and get you.

A fighter pilot had to be a feisty character that's ready to fight. You can compare it to hand to hand combat. Just look at the fighter pilots .. you see a different type of individual.

Interviewer: A high level of aggression.

Joe Foss: Yes. But the bomber pilots have to be braver than brave to sit there and take it .. just 'drilling on to the target' .. in spite of everything.

I am a loner when it comes to that. And I'm not [having] somebody telling me, "A little to the right and a little to the left." I am in control of that airplane, ALL THE WAY!

Interviewer: Early reports, on Guadalcanal, about the Japanese Zero's combat effectiveness were pretty scary. How long did it take to overcome those fears ?

Joe Foss: I didn't take me any time at all. I didn't think they were invincible. I had known some of the guys who had knocked them down. And I figured .. if they can knock 'em down .. I can knock 'em down.

And I absolutely wanted to .. BE THERE ! In fact .. almost killed myself .. just trying to .. ' BE THERE ' . I took up an airplane that had been grounded for maintenance. The guy who grounded it was right. And I broke it.

Almost got my head cut off by Colonel Bauer : "Too bad you didn't get killed, Foss" he said. "Taking that airplane off .. when it was grounded!"

I had totally dismantled the airplane .. nothing left of it. The landing gear came off on the first tree I hit in a palm grove. Then it nosed down and hit more palm trees about 14 feet above the ground .. they broke the airplane into a pile of junk.

The only mark I got was a piece of windshield glass hit me. It went through my helmet and cut a vein in my head so blood was running down both sides of my face .. and [the impact] sort of knocked me cold.

When I came to .. this guy yelled at me to [jump out of the wreck] and come over and jump in this trench. So I did and he said, "Captain, take your helmet off." And so I took my helmet off and there was this little hole that was squirting blood. I put my helmet back on to stop it just as the meat wagon came, and that's one of the funniest sights of the war.

[The Doc] came out of the meat wagon and saw all the blood on the airplane, And he says, "Oh he must be hurt! He must be hurt!" So they're stumbling around, and looking around for a [torn up body on the crash site] while I'm sitting over in the combat trench [ happily bleeding] and laughing.

I swear that the doctor had been drinking some of his brandy, you know. Then they gave me a bottle of that medicinal brandy to stabilize you when you were hurt. Boy .. that would make your eyes spin in opposite directions.

I was dreading to see Bauer .. I knew he was going to explode, so I wanted to [escape] him by getting back up in the air. So I did.

Interviewer: I wanted to get your opinion on the Wildcat. What are your impressions in fighting in it?

Joe Foss: I loved that Wildcat. I just loved it. It was like a brother to me. It was tough .. able to destroy the enemy .. I felt at home with it .. I didn't blame it for the [relative] speed it didn't have .. and I was so
familiar with it that it could be falling upside down, but I never had any fear of unusual positions in it .. it was a part of my body. [For instance] one time, I'd shot this plane down ..but there were three other guys with him .. they filled me with lead .. shot me down .. but I was protected in there because of [the Wildcats' armor and] durability .

Interviewer: You know, [Japanese Ace] Sakai says the same thing in his book. He says that the Zero was an extension of his body.

Interviewer: Can you tell me what it was like to intercept and attack a 'Betty' light bomber ?

Joe Foss: It was a tougher airplane to knock down than a Zero. For what they used it for, It was a good airplane. It was fast. We were having a tough time getting up where they were. They'd cruise along there .. if they nosed over [to accelerate] you'd never catch 'em .. they left you back there sucking air.

Interviewer: Did you have a preferred method of attack?

Joe Foss: I loved to [come down].. and just try to ' run' into them. If you had the altitude, you'd cruise out there in front of them.. turn over on your back [and split S] coming back [ head on]. You didn't have to use your sights then, see? Just pour the lead into that baby.

Or, the other way, was to come in at a 90-degree angle [in a pursuit curve].

Interviewer: How far out would you 'fire on them?'

Joe Foss: Well, I would say about 350 yards. And if I was as smart at the start of my wartime as I was when I finished my duty, why I would have gotten a lot more airplanes.

I think that our biggest problem was that we [often] shot out of range. The Betty looked bigger [and made us think we were closer in]. If you shot at a Zero .. out of range .. on a deflection shot .. he was gone. He just saw those tracers, see. We really shouldn't have used any tracers because they scared them away. If you threw those tracer ' snowballs' at the Zeros .. they didn't hang around.

Interviewer: I know you were in dogfights .. but how much did the element of surprise have to do with your successes ?

Joe Foss: I just went in and attacked. With the [lower] speeds we had, if you start maneuvering around you'd (1) either scare them off or (2) attract some other Zeros in the area to come after you. And there were lot of targets .. so you didn't want to hang around [any one spot].

Interviewer: You were telling a story earlier where you would call out the names of your wing men, and they instinctively knew what to do.

Joe Foss: Well, we didn't to a lot of talking on the radio, for two reasons. One, a high percentage of the time the radios didn't work. And two, you just didn't want a lot of talking on the air.

You wouldn't say .. "We're going to circle around here to the right "because we never knew whether the enemy [was listening and] understood us .. and so we weren't giving away any information. There was no way that we did a lot of talking. And if somebody got on there .. telling their life history, why we'd say: "SHUT UP! "

Interviewer: Well, what during the dogfighting? Was there a lot of hollering?

Joe Foss: No. About the only time there'd be any [yelling] was if you saw a Zero diving on one of the guys and you didn't think he saw it .. why .. you'd yell then!

Now their was another time when I'd passed out .. my oxygen mask got unhooked [and the airplane drifted into a power dive]. I'd just sort of settled back .. imagining that I was listening to a radio program .. and I was sitting in a big chair. I couldn't figure out why there wasn't any music .. I couldn't understand what they were saying. I was just totally out of it.

Now Greg Loesch was on my wing, and Greg followed me down. And he was yelling "PULL OUT! PULL OUT! PULL OUT!" And when I got down [to a lower altitude] I came to .. started realizing I'm not in .. this big chair.

I looked over on my left side .. and there were hills right there. I MEAN .. RIGHT THERE!

If I'd flown down into the hills any other way .. I'd of hit. I was below the top of the hills, and I just pulled straight back and prayed "Lord, I hope there's not a hill ahead of me,".. so I just pulled up into the ' soup.'

After you've been out .. you don't come back that really fast. But I did and I popped out [of the soup] and there was a Zero coming from right to left. And I just had the lead just right so I just squeezed it .. and he blew, see? He exploded.

And Greg Loesch says, "I escorted you all the way down .. and then you shoot the only Zero that we had a chance to shoot at. "

You see .. Greg was .. still sitting there .. right there on my wing!

Former governor Joe Foss dies in Arizona
Associated Press

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. - Joe Foss, a former South Dakota governor and bona fide war hero, died on Wednesday, Jan. 1, 2003, at a hospital in Arizona, Gov. Bill Janklow said. He was 87.

Foss had not regained consciousness after he suffered an apparent aneurysm last fall, the governor said.

Funeral arrangements are pending.

Janklow said Foss, who served in World War II, had always told him he wanted to buried in Arlington National Cemetery.

A Republican, Foss served in the state Legislature from 1948-53 and then as governor from 1955 to 1959. He won the Congressional Medal of Honor as a Marine pilot during World War II. He also earned the Distinguished Flying Cross.

"I always had the attitude that every day will be a great day,"Foss said in a 1987 interview. "I look forward to it like a kid in a candy store, wherever I am. My parents helped start me in that direction."

Foss was born April 17, 1915, on a farm east of Sioux Falls and graduated from the University of South Dakota in 1940. He also attended Augustana College and Sioux Falls College.

Foss once said his love of flying dated back to childhood days. As a youngster, he said he watched pilots fly over his family's home and wave to him from the cockpit.

"I thought, `Someday I'm gonna trade these horses for an airplane,'"he said.

He was one of the most prominent World War II heroes, shooting down 26 enemy planes. He was a colonel in the Air Force in the Korean War and brigadier general and chief of staff for the South Dakota Air National Guard.

Foss was the first commissioner of the American Football League. He also hosted the television show "The American Sportsman"on ABC and was chosen president of the National Rifle Association in 1988, serving through 1990.

"I'll keep working until the day I die,"Foss said. "I can't imagine sitting down and saying this is the end of the trail."

Foss was visiting Beaverton, Mich., last fall when he became sick. He had planned to give a speech in support his great-nephew, Justin Mishler, who had applied to attend the U.S. Military Academy.

He was later moved from a hospital in Michigan to Scottsdale, Ariz., where he his wife lived.